Dr. Joyce F. Brown is the first Black and first female President of the Fashion Institute of Technology (FIT) and founder of the recently announced Social Justice Center (SJC) at FIT. She’s a native New Yorker from Harlem who grew up on 141st Street and Convent, down the street from The City College of New York (CUNY). Dr. Brown grew up in a vastly different New York, the one before Walt Disney took over Times Square, and when Graffiti lined the inside of the subway cars. Her proximity to City College allowed her a daily activity of people-watching as professors, staff, and students of all ages passed her home on their way to campus. When she was younger, she yearned to be a psychologist and a writer. The first came true a while ago; the latter dream is on hold but still on her to-do list. The most ironic revelations during our talk with this academic trailblazer are the two things she didn’t actually want to do: to be a teacher or work in education. That was, of course, until she spent 10 years enrolled in graduate school part-time at New York University to obtain a PhD in psychology.

Since completing her Doctorate and Master’s degree in Counseling Psychology at New York University, Dr. Brown has held several high-ranking positions throughout the city at Bernard Baruch College, the Graduate School and University Center of CUNY, and as a New York City Deputy Mayor for Public and Community Affairs. So how did she end up in a career she wanted nothing to do with? “I thought I could do a better job than I saw regarding the services and resources available for students, programs, and faculty support. If I could run an institution, I knew I could make it better”, she said.

Dr. Brown is FIT’s sixth president and has been at the university since 1998. She talked to us about her presence as a Black leader in higher-education, job prospects for creative students, and FIT’s newly launched Social Justice Center with million-dollar funding.

I spent time learning about you, your impressive resume, and your 35-plus years of academic experience. I’m curious to hear why you chose education, specifically higher-ed, as your course in life? 

I was impressed with the students’ stamina, commitment, dedication, and perseverance at public higher-ed institutions. They were working all day before spending the evening sitting in classes, taking exams, and reading endless books, all for the purpose of advancing themselves in a society where we tell everyone it will work out if they work hard, follow these steps, and persevere until they succeed.

Before FIT, you were at Bernard Baruch College; before that, you were a Professor of Counseling Psychology at the Graduate School and University Center of CUNY. You had also served as a New York City Deputy Mayor for Public and Community affairs during the David Dinkins administration. Tell me why you decided to take the top position at a fashion school?

Interestingly, a headhunter called me. However, it was for a different search. In the end, I was not selected for that position which in retrospect was for the better. It would not have been a good fit. Ultimately, they asked if I would agree to be a candidate in a different search, they believed would be a perfect fit. I agreed – and I have been at FIT ever since.

My grandmother, who was a fantastic seamstress, took courses at FIT. I grew up with pins and needles on the floor and spent Saturdays with her in the fabric department at Macy’s. All the women in my family sewed except me, but I loved fabrics and textiles. Fashion was an environment that I really was familiar with and understood. Being a psychologist helps me to listen well and understand the intensity of creative personalities.

Speaking of top positions, there aren’t many people of color, specifically those who identify as African-American, at the helm of universities in the U.S.. Can you talk about some of the varying obstacles you’ve faced getting to the position you’re in now?

I always say race is never incidental. People can tell you they don’t see color and don’t make judgments, but it is present consciously or unconsciously. It is part of who you are, part of your presentation of self, and part of how people judge what you say or do.  It is part of the equation when your demeanor or how you project yourself or your idea is assessed whether individuals realize it or not. Having said that, I’ve been Black all my life, so when I’ve encountered exchanges and/or situations that get or have the potential to get a little testy, I recognize them and move on. I really can turn a deaf ear and move forward. That can be a challenge at times, but I think most of us have managed to build a repertoire of defense – and most of us have a similar story to tell.

Before I joined FIT, which is part of the State University of New York system (SUNY), I spent many years at City University in various positions where I observed and endured a lot of challenges early on, from how decisions were made to how promotions were given. There was always a bit of an undercurrent to how you or your ideas were evaluated or supported. My way of dealing with all that was reminding myself that the worst thing someone can do is to tell me I cannot be permitted to do something because they believe they know more about the situation than I do. I always share this advice with students: “never take no as an answer from someone who’s really not in a position to tell you yes.” Because in those cases, they are simply expressing an opinion, not wisdom or advice.

What do you think your presence means to the students of color at FIT? 

A couple of years ago, we had an unfortunate incident happen at FIT. As a result, the students of color were highly agitated and vocal about the feelings the situation engendered. In general, the students at FIT are creative and will change the world by making beautiful things. Historically they aren’t usually activists, but these students were upset and speaking out. A lot of what I heard while listening to their remarks was extremely upsetting. As a result, I came away from there with a greater understanding of their expectation of me as their president. I imagine that for students of color, my being a Black president is a meaningful difference, and they want to believe that I will work to make sure they succeed.

Through our new Social Justice Center, my goal is to create more opportunities for young people of color who otherwise may not have them. FIT is part of State University of New York and as a public college is not considered expensive but everything is expensive if you have no money. So, if I can create a pathway and more scholarships for able students to compete, then more will have a chance to succeed and excel.

FIT now has The Social Justice Center, which aims to increase opportunity and accelerate social equity for the BIPOC community in the fashion and creative industries. Tell me about how you developed this center and some immediate results you’ve seen.

We collectively witnessed the murder of George Floyd live on television, which changed people’s minds about the ease with which we closed our eyes to overt and covert racism.

While seeing my own students so mad and disappointed during the aftermath of Mr. Floyd, I realized that we all couldn’t just sit around feeling bad about the situation. I looked at what was available to me in terms of resources, and since we are at the nexus of education and industry, it seemed we had an opportunity to create pathways to fuel the ranks of the fashion and creative industries with a diverse talent pool of BIPOC students. The lack of diversity in the executive ranks of the industry was being discussed and has continued to be a subject of conversation. While everyone starting out wants their name on the door, that is not the typical trajectory. There are so many levels for professional success in the industry and so many ways to fulfill the creativity young people bring to the table. Many people wanted to contribute so they sent funds to the HBCUs because they are a known entity – and many BIPOC students will benefit from these scholarships. But at the end of the day, we need to build something that will create a systematic change in the industry and in the lives of young BIPOC students seeking opportunities to use their talent.

I believe we are in a position to build a pipeline for talented young people of color who wouldn’t have an opportunity otherwise. We can educate the students and prepare them to take positions in companies that are interested in making a difference. My idea was to create that talent pipeline. First, I needed companies to recognize their own need for cultural change and then to nurture and recognize what these talented, creative, well-educated BIPOC students can bring to their ranks.  Next, I needed mentoring relationships and for our students to be exposed to individuals of color at various levels in the industry who have been successful throughout their journey in order to help them envision their own possibilities for success. Then, once their education is finished, I need our students to walk away with connections and relationships, and commitments for paid apprenticeships, so they can be exposed to different areas of the company and find the best fit for the value they bring.

By the end of the last academic year, PVH, Capri Holdings Limited, and Tapestry, Inc. each pledged $1 million to be the founding members of The Social Justice Center at FIT, a novel higher education initiative established to increase opportunity and accelerate social equity within the creative industries for the BIPOC community. This fall, FIT welcomed the first cohort of Social Justice Scholars. The 11 first-semester students graduated from high schools across New York State and were selected to receive full scholarships provided by Brett Johnson, Capri Holdings, Carolina Herrera, and Ralph Lauren. The program supports each of the student’s academic and career tracks with opportunities for internships and mentorships, career placement, and a paid apprenticeship upon graduating. Additionally, we just announced the appointment of Nicole Finigan Ndzibah as executive director of the Social Justice Center at FIT.

There’s a lot of chatter in the world, especially on the worldwide web, about students attending public or private art schools and not landing work after graduation. How are you and FIT working to change this notion of wasted time and money? 

If I may, I feel it’s a little different at FIT. When people ask me about competition, I say we don’t have any because no one else does what we do. We have over 50 majors. I can’t recall a single room I’ve been in since being president where I haven’t met someone with a connection to FIT. When I speak about the cross-section of capability and possibility, I’m talking about interior design, retail management, toy design, cosmetics and fragrances, and international trade; our footprint is vast.

Over 80 percent of our students are employed upon graduation There are many possibilities for career development in the creative industries, and they continue to grow and change as new technology, new techniques, and collaborations are introduced. Young graduates evolve into industry professionals, and they find innovative ways to apply and utilize their talents.

Lastly, I want your thoughts on the new obstacles higher-ed intuitions face as enrollment at schools across the nation is dropping. How do you convince high-school or returning students that a degree is still worth having as we continue to move towards a world where you can create a career online without stepping on campus or into a classroom?

It’s an excellent question, and there are many factors contributing to it. First, the demography of the United States is working against us. There is a decline in high school graduates and coupled with the pandemic, it feels precipitous. There has been a decline in the birth rate, so we do not have that same natural flow of incoming classes that we had across the country for and this is particularly evident in the Northeast. The pandemic was also a challenging experience for young people. Everything that had been promised about college, leaving home, moving into a dorm, and becoming a new person your freshman year, was stripped away.

None of that happened for many people currently in school. They graduated, went upstairs to their old bedroom, and sat in front of a computer for two years. I believe those two factors had more to do with the recent decline than people questioning the importance of a degree or the debt that may come with it. Many who question the value of  education are the same individuals who are hiring managers and searching for candidates with a degree. I will say that just having students sit in a classroom as professors lecture to them is very yesterday, and students are not responding to that today. As institutions, we are obligated to figure out new ways to teach and how we use our resources to make college a more dynamic, supportive, and welcoming environment.